an update to that breaking news on columbia university's campus, demonstrators broke in and barricaded themselves last night. pictures justin show shattered glass and furniture tossed throughout the building tonight . new york city police cleared out the building and arrested about 100 demonstrators on campus. they also cleared the tent encampment which was on the south lawn. we are going to continue our coverage tomorrow. it has been a long night, and on that note, i wish you a good night. from all of our colleagues

across the network set nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. t the end of tomorrow. tonight on all in. >> every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. 5% of the people think it is true. maybe 10%. we don't win. >> 2016, trump played into evidence as the defense keeps resting. >> sleeping. he tried devices to keep trump awake. >> the judge hands-down as penalty for violations in the gag order. >> do you think we will see a change in his behavior because he doesn't want to deal with this? because he doesn't want to risk going to jail? >> i don't know. >> what we learn from them and brokering the deal between

stormy daniels and donald trump. >> right back into 2016 and those moments around the access hallway. the chilling plan for second term in trump's own words. >> time magazine did a cover story which is nice. what we know that's driving the campus protest nationwide. the latest installment in our ongoing series, are you better off? >> the testing and masks and all the things, we solved every problem and we solve the quickly. >> all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. it was an eventful day in the manhattan election a different style of donald trump. the morning started with the former president being held in contempt of court. fined, threatened by the judge with jail time for violating his gag order in the case. we will have more on that in a moment. it was the first event in a day

that included testimony for four witnesses. first, the jury heard more from gary farro. a personal banker for former trump lawyer michael cohen. he testified cohen was in a rush and 2016 when he created a new company called essential consultants llc and asked farro to speed through $130,000 payment from that company to keith davidson. he said the money was for a retainer, but it was for davidson to collect on behalf of his client, former trump paramore stormy daniels to buy her silence in the lead up to trump's election. a prosecutor is farro of the bank process could've gone differently if cohen it told the truth of what he was up to? he was set to pay off adult film actress. he said, yes, we certainly ask additional questions. in other words, trump's lawyer the time fixing the skin, new it was not legal and had to be

concealed. the court heard from two unusual witnesses. a court reporter from e. jean carroll's successful defamation lawsuit from donald trump, and the head of archives for cspan. they were there to authenticate trump's own deposition from his defamation trial as well as videos of trump and his many campaign rally so that jury could see him in his own words. here are some of those clips. >> it's a phony deal. i have no idea who these women are. had no idea. i think you know i have no idea because you understand me for a lot of years. okay? when you looked at that horrible woman last night, you said, i don't think so. i don't think so. whoever she is, wherever she comes from, the stories are total fiction. they are 100% made up.

they never happened. they never would have been. all horrible lies. all fabrications. we can't let them change the most important election in our lifetimes. >> that was donald trump looking more than eight years younger, in my opinion. denying the stories of his assault accusers saying he hopes they do not change the election outcome. clearly owned his mind, understandably, a few weeks before the election. this was october 2016 before the election. the same month he was allegedly approving a six-figure payoff to keep stormy daniels quiet. normally when it comes to attainable records like this, everybody can see it, the prosecution agree on their authenticity before the trial starts. the trump team would not do that in the trial and the judge barred testimony from the many women who came forward to accuse trump of assault.

prosecutors had to take this tedious step of calling expert witnesses to get the evidence in which is funny since it draws out the trail which is becoming quite -- quite taxing on the defendant was reportedly met at his lawyer todd blanche. he has griped it mr. blanche, formal prosecutor, has been insufficiently aggressive. mr. trump wants him to attack witnesses. attack with the former president sees as a hostile jury pool. and detect the judge. trump who often complains about legal fees and sometimes refuses to pay them, has wondered aloud why his lawyers cost so much, according to the people times spoke to. it brings us to the last witness the jury heard from. keith davidson. a pretty key player in this affair. a lawyer who never got money directly from donald trump it represented stormy daniels and karen mcdougal and negotiated is for both women to withhold their stories. infidelity with trump ahead of

the election. in court, davidson walked through -- walked the jury through the text and related the excuses that michael cohen gave when the payoff to stormy daniels failed to materialize., quote,, he stated computer systems are all -- so many fireballs. the secret service is in here. davidson and his client did eventually after a fair amount of follow-up get that $130,000 directly, as you might recall, out of michael cohen's pocket and cohen city was reimbursed for the expense by the then president of these united states. joining your two people who were at the courthouse today. a lot to get to today. let's start right ended on keith davidson. who is an important witness. tell us who davidson is and what he was going through? >> he's the lawyer for stormy

daniels and karen mcdougal. prosecutors were taking them through the negotiation of the settlement payments to both women which as you know, operated differently the first one and the second one. david pecker testified he is told dylan howard, do not get involved in this. i do not want any affiliation with a pornography start. also, i am not a bank. nonetheless, dylan howard did get involved and he got involved by involving keith davidson who had a prior relationship with stormy daniels' manager. herself described as an infamous story broker. this is the seamy underbelly of the world that david pecker took us through. this is a -- >> this is the wrong below the inquiry. it's too sketchy for us, the national enquirer. you need to run this as an off book operation because us, the

national enquirer, find this to be too dubious. >> i'm glad to use sketchy because sketchy comes in mind when i think of keith davidson. he was not an easy witness for the prosecution. part of it is because he did not want to acknowledge his complicity in either of these deals. he was shadowy how he got involved representing stormy daniels in the first place. and the deal was resurrected after he told michael cohen in mid-october after cohen failed to fund the settlement. i'm out and i do not represent stormy daniels or gina rodriguez anymore. michael cohen gets called back into action, and the whole deal gets papered in a matter of 24 hours. we know that because of the banker. >> what was your impression that david pecker, he was interesting witness and soared to frank and not shadowy and not squarely. area front about what he does and what worldly operates and so he's a fairly credible witness. what did you think of davidson? >> i thought davidson was

straight on the most important is he brought us to the precipice of stormy daniels and the huge crisis it is. there was the bland text at every step, and then, when the access hollywood tape hits, you have him talking to dylan howard, and he is so he was effective in reinforcing the notion that at this point it's a nitroglycerin crisis that has to be dealt with. >> when planet hollywood drops. >> access hollywood. >> sorry. i don't want to defame the wonderful restaurant chain. [ laughter ] the key sort of -- the key narrative point i took away, and i have not read the transcript yet.

the idea that there was the mcdougal deal. it set off some alarms internally at ami. then there's the stormy deal then the stormy deal sputters out of michael cohen is being squarely in the coming up and that's dead. what resurrects it is the crisis of the access hollywood. >> yes and no. the crisis is what initiates the deal negotiations. at some point, falls apart. mid-october after access hollywood already happens. dylan howard and others decide it has to be dealt with because stormy daniels and gina rodriguez are now separated from keith davidson, going and shopping her story. >> you've got a real problem. >> there are hiccups in the road but the urgency is always there. that's the thing that's most important. what is the difference going to say about that? it's set up to try to salvage

michael cohen. he is out there paying $130,000 knowing he can't even take someone to lunch without trump. what is the narrative that has him doing that, that isn't trying to put out this huge fire? >> i will say keith davidson was really impossible for the prosecution today. he would not say, at least in response to a question that judge merchan would allow, that he understood the trump was the ultimate pocketbook for the stormy daniels settlement. prosecutors desperately wanted him to say that. there were experienced lawyers in the room. harry looked at me, can you ask this question in a way the guy can answer? he needed to lay the foundation for the fact that keith davidson had an understanding and it wasn't just an assumption that trump was going to pay it. it wasn't just cohen freelancing and they didn't get that cleanly today. they might on thursday. >> there were text between the

two that were displayed today. we may ask for sketches of this. these are text between the inquirer, ami dylan howard who is not david pecker, and davidson. what is the substance of those exchanges. >> the substance is mostly to show these guys were in touch very, very frequently. >> they were working the steal. >> and they both understand that both sides have an interest in coming to these agreements. first mcdougal and then stormy daniels, even though davidson testified, he wanted to rid himself of the whole thing. he found cohen detestable. ultimately, just when he thinks he's out he gets pulled back into doing this deal. >> both sides of the same seamy world. >> let's talk about, quickly here, 90 seconds, to talk about the strangeness of e. jean carroll deposition court reporter and the c-span archives. what was that about?

>> it was about, what you said, they were being obstreperous and not stipulating. everybody stipulates so they were going through this first- year law school requirements for business records, exceptions, et cetera. i thought the jury would be very bored and even arced but they seemed to be paying attention to this. >> take me through -- i read the monologue so i understand the point. hammer home, you stipulate, you say years the campaign tape. it's in public records. >> we know it's a real voice of donald trump. >> it's not just that but c-span did it in the regular course of business. duty to do it. >> you don't stipulate when you have to establish a chain of custody of this document and authenticate it with the person who can speak to authority of its authenticity. >> you have to show it is what it looks like. >> and then, the banker who seems like basically, he is

basically like michael cohen is really rushing and desperate. he doesn't know much about this deal but maybe sniffing around it. >> i think what he is saying is michael cohen was always in a rush. real estate transactions are often rushed. even though there was something fuzzy about it maybe in retrospect, and once we knew about stormy daniels, while we were going through it, it didn't strike us out of the ordinary. it's keeping with how michael cohen behaved and how a real estate clients behave in michael cohen represented to us on paper that he was establishing a real estate consultancy and paying a retainer to a lawyer. >> hold that thought because you're going to stay here. i want to talk about that, the gag order ruling, how trump is enjoying his time in the freezing courthouse. that's all next.

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don't wait- call today. with absorbine pro, pain won't hold you back from your passions. it's the only solution with two max-strength anesthetics to deliver the strongest numbing pain relief available. so, do your thing like a pro, pain-free. absorbine pro. today we got the long- awaited ruling on whether or not donald trump violated the gag order in his new york election interferes case. they flag 10 instances, that they said ran afoul of the judgment ski order. most of the posts attacked michael cohen, citing a new york post article calling him a serial perjury. others go after stormy daniels and former prosecutor. this morning, the judge agreed with the prosecution on nine of the 10 instances. judge merchan finding him in

contempt of court, ordering him to lily the post by to: 15 which he did. he has been ordered to pay $1000 per violation for a total of $9000 by friday. if he does it again, the judge warned the court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarcerated tory punishment. still with me at the table, harry litman and lisa rubin. harry, i cut you off before we went to break. do you remember what it was? >> no. but, you buried the lede right now. what preceded this was judge merchan saying the money is not effective. he has now raised the hammer

and said next time i'm coming down. >> lisa, you meet up with the $1000 fine mac is statutorily by law. judge, you were with us and you say people took a lot of notice of and i heard back from folks who talked about the point you made that you can say, look, there will be jail time and i'm not gonna tell you how much and where until after the trial so you try to get this disincentive affect. what do you think of the ruling by judge merchan today? >> the judgment ski ruling was within his discretion. he found nine violations. there's a bit of a dilemma he has created, and it's that he has another contempt hearing coming up on thursday. that's four more alleged violations. if the judge finds that all of those were, in fact, violations of his gag order, i think most we think, then he will send him to jail. he really cannot. what he said today was that going forward, these four

preceded it, so now we will have 13 or 14 violations likely with more fines. at the judge had the two contempt violations, put them together and had one hearing, think we would have a different situation where the judge probably would be inclined to say, that's enough. you are going in. >> that's an important point. subsequent violations do not count for the hearing thursday. i want to enter into the record here, some of the posts by the defendant in this case. it's all very unusual. this really does not happen. the judge has taken away my constitutional right to free speech. i'm the only presidential candidate to be gagged. this whole trial is rigged. taking my freedom of speech. he is wreaking the presidential 2024 election, election interference. he said it's a total witch-hunt.

hours of sitting down and listening to nothing except lies. the trial is going like a speeding bullet because the judges working hard to make his friends happy . he is a disgrace to the country. this is today. this is today. one of the things he said, and we have made this done before that it's too fast and too slow. he sitting there so much and it's going so fast. two things to bring up. one is the thing we discussed in the last block which the refusal to stipulate is elongating the trial. >> absolutely. the fact you have to bring in the guy who is head of c-span archives with his counsel to go through the process by which c- span records and keeps video archives of campaign speeches, and make the jury sit through that too. imagine how many more times we might've to go through similar things for other videos. it can't help but elongate the trial and this is a guy who's blaming alvin bragg for keeping him off the campaign trail. he has made choices that are keeping them there for longer. >> he doesn't appear to be

enjoying himself and i can't imagine i would either. i don't think it's a character flaw. he does a lot of resting of his eyes. we can say what's going on. saying the rosary in his head? reverie about campaign speeches where he's falling asleep or whatever? his eyes are closed a lot. >> his eyes are closed a lot in what i will say as he appears to be addressed for considerable periods of time. i spend a lot of time with my nose my phone or computer at the courthouse trying to transcribe or capture moments for you and other colleagues. every time i looked up today, particularly during the first part of the day, donald trump's eyes were closed. he could've been meditating. he could've been napping. that's not for me to say other than i think he appeared to be addressed. >> i brought binoculars. rem is what we're talking about. >> judge, the pacing of the

trial so far. i want your sense of how you think it is going? there is the fact that defense won't stipulate to these archival, these records. they have to bring in at experts. what do you think of the pace? >> it is the job of the judge to make sure the trial is moving along. when i was on the bench and i had many jury trials, i was looking at the jurors and they look at me too. to see if they were with us, basically. i saw people nodding out that we take a recess. i believe the pace is good. these jurors are generally interested in what's going on. i think it is true of all juries and maybe a few exceptions, they really want to do the work. they are paying attention to what's going on. they know this is important. if i could say one thing about the fines that judge merchan

imposed, i put out a call to new york legislators. they need to amend the statute that punishes criminal contempt in new york. it is ridiculous now to have the maximum fine of $1000 per violation. it was probably right at the time because i don't think they have patient having somebody really wealthy just blatantly ignore the orders of the court. i hope that happens sooner than later. >> on the point of juries. this is a hobbyhorse of my but if you will indulge me to ride it. it's the case that people's ability to pay attention for long periods of time, evidence has pointed to that ability shrinking. we understand why that is. we have constant stimulus. this is happening every day across courtrooms across america. this is a slice of that. the idea of remaining fixed for this period of time, not looking at your phone or other things, for everyone in the

room, it has taken on a level of difficulty or strangeness in the normal course of things, that i am curious when you check in on the jury, how do you think they're doing? >> i actually think they're doing really well. they all have individual monitor in front of them. that helps, particularly when the examination is document intensive because their eyes are fixed on the individual texts between davidson and howard were the emails between davidson and cohen. they looked at the bank records other people might be bored by. they are interested in the details but the technology is a system to them and helping them stay engaged. they are closer to the players than anybody else. they've got their own personal monitors with the exhibits demonstrated for them. the jurors ability to pay

attention. i think this particular jury is especially attentive. more attentive than the two juries in the e. jean carroll trials who i thought were fairly attentive. >> there are a couple people in particular, that's the best part of being in the courtroom, to really focus. there are a couple of jars, if he's got a shot maybe it's today. they have come in and out. the text we were talking about where he is so f-d, you can see the retention come forward. it has waned, i think, even in the days i've been there. they are pretty good. they are not at the edge of their chairs. there's less notetaking than there was. >> great to have you all. thank you very much. you can get more insight into what's happening in the courtroom during the trial in the latest episode of my podcast, why is this happening? with lisa rubin.

it's available where you get your podcast. check it out. donald trump lays out exactly what will happen if he wins a second term. the blinking red danger lights, ahead. , ahead.

remember ronald reagan talking about jimmy carter? >> are you better off? >> are you better off? >> are we better off?

>> it's not whether were better off but whether they are better off? >> better off. >> better off. >> daniel were four years ago. are you better off than you were four years ago? that's the question every presidential candidate asked, even donald trump should not. >> are you better off than you were four years ago? i don't think so. >> if trump says so. it's easy enough to check so let's look back at whether we were better off or years ago today. that would be april 30, 2020, when the headline of the "new york times" was the pandemic death toll it's much worse than reported. that redline skyrocketing off the chart represented the 6500 deaths in one week in new york city. economy shrinks a quick is pay since 2000 a plunge. far worst is yet to come. the worst was still yet to come. they would not hit their peak for nearly a year.

maybe donald trump thinks we were better off on april 30, 2020, because he was trying to spin his own alternate reality every day in his excruciating daily briefings. >> tonight, the national divide with stay-at-home order set to expire in eight more states. as they reopen, and the major gaps in testing, long lines across the u.s. >> the testing and the masks and all the things, we solve every problem. we sell to quickly. cannot think anybody has done a better job with testing, ventilators, with all the things we have done. and the death totals, the numbers per million people really very very strong. we are very proud of the job we have done. >> the push to test more americans for the virus and learn what it is we are facing, as the number of dead keeps climbing. now over 62,000. >> your son-in-law jared kushner said the government's response has been a, quote, great success story.

is that the right tone and message? >> i don't think anybody's done a job we have done other than public relations. the press won't talk about the facts. >> economic crisis for so many families and businesses. new numbers showing 30 million americans are jobless after six weeks. >> you will have a strong transition. the 4th quarter will be incredibly successful. next year, we will have a phenomenal year. >> across the country, state and local governments are facing crushing budget shortfalls due to cratering tax revenues. one report estimates states will be short more than $200 billion over the nest fix a year. >> our country is making a lot of progress. making a lot of progress. >> every time with tuesday's -- every time we do these, i think i have walled off the part of myself from four years ago.

i think a lot of us have which is why he can ask the question. after watching that, are you better off than you were four years ago?

i want to thank everybody. you been treating me very fair. i want to think time magazine. they did a cover story which is nice. >> donald trump started the day by thinking time magazine by putting him on the cover. being on the cover of time

magazine is so important to him, he had a fake one hanging in four of his golf houses. the substance and pace, it paints a deeply alarming portrait of what he intends for a second term. it matches with all the reporting we have that he and the people around him are squarely planning and authoritarian takeover the federal government., quote, to carry out a deportation operation designed to remove more than 11 million people from the country. he would be built willing to build migrant detention camps and deploy the u.s. military at the border and inland. he with that red states monitor women's pregnancies and prosecute those who would violate abortion bans. he would get the was civil- service, deploy the national guard tour and cities acc fits. was a white house pandemic preparedness office and staff his administration with acolytes who back is false assertion that the 2020 election was stolen. someone who is covered trump extensively. this piece has gotten a lot of attention although it's in line

with the other reporting and what distinguishes it there is an interview trump. although what he says in the interview as worthless as everything he says. he is hedging and straightforward another's. the picture is quite clear here. >> no question. i and a lot of other reporters have been doing stories for the past year about what trump would do if he came back to the white house. what is interesting is often we would do the stories and hear from republicans. i've had many conversations with republicans who are tentatively backing trump and they would say you in the media are being alarmists. you know. you are trying to scare people. he doesn't really mean the things he says. he doesn't mean these things he says on social media. then, he gets into a setting like this and almost every time he is asked about it, he doubles down or says, maybe

i'll go further. i think the reality is trump doesn't even know exactly how he will behave in office. he has a broad picture of what he wants a second term to be about, and that's getting revenge to his political enemies. >> i want to play a clip of stephen miller talking about the mass deportation. this is something that comes up again and again. people have to get their head around what it would take, the level of force being deployed by the federal government to show up at people's schools, homes, and workplaces. 11 million people, ripping them away, putting them in camps. the logistical force and what it would probably provoke in terms of protest and oppositions and what that would mean. here is miller comparing it to building the panama canal. >> it is undertaking every bit as significant and every bit as

daring and ambitious as building the panama canal. it's a great undertaking. president trump has outlined a plan that involves building large-scale staging grounds near the border. most likely in texas because of the existing infrastructure there. you go around the country arresting illegal immigrants and large-scale rates. >> stephen miller is sort of a very light chesty dork who likes to talk like a very tough guy like a bond villain. there is sial.. it does seem this is a genuine plan. >> stephen miller is a troll and he leans in to that, but he is somebody who, by every account, is going to have a lot of them -- influence on immigration policy during a second term. we should not downplay what he is saying.

listening to that, something that occurs to me is important way of understanding all of this is trump pairs and authoritarian instinct with a deep love of showmanship. what i mean by that is the detention camps. the idea of mass deportations. deploying the national guard to american cities. these are draconian tactics and things that would look very dramatic on tv. that's where they overlap between donald trump and stephen miller, they both are going to want to part two -- pursue draconian immigration program that also will look really scary. it will get a lot of tv attention. there will be footage of. i think that is an important way of understanding how trump plans to go about his second term. >> there is no shortage of reporting on this. there really has been good reporting on project 2025.

these visions we are doing, something on my podcast, we are looking at trump's record. look at what he did on various issues. why is this happening? i saw a poll today that had biden winning newspaper readers by 50 points and losing people who do not follow political news by 15 points. i do wonder, are you competent the sense of alarm that i think suffuses the reporting of people following this closely, will penetrate at some point into the public consciousness? >> i can tell you it's a conversation that is happening all the time in newsrooms around america. everybody is waiting for, when is reporting about this will start to breakthrough? that's not to say, actually, millions and millions of people are reading these stories. they are not really people --

they are people who are very plugged in to the campaign news. for a lot of the country, there's a deep level of exhaustion about donald trump. he is an exhausting person to think about and read about and to watch tv about. i understand that. i do think at some point, we are still early in the cycle, relatively speaking. september, october, people will inevitably plug back in. what's going to be important is that we in the media don't take for granted that everybody has been following this for the past four years and tried to explain the stakes and the plans that trump is making. calmly and in a non-alarmist way, but in a clear eyed and forthright way. i think a lot of people are going to come to this pretty late, in the last few weeks of

the election. >> the department of justice which is an area of focus. people in memory, donald trump order jeff sessions to prosecute his political enemies all the time in public on twitter. this is not -- it happened in front of all of us. we were there. jeff sessions generally -- bill barr was more pliant and played ball a little more. then when the going got tough, like an outer coward, he issued the slobbering -- to donald trump and quit, leaving other people to stop the coup. you wrote this in december, one job you will be focused on getting right as attorney general, he believes the men who held the position during his term, sessions and barr were guilty of grievous . he will revenge his persecutors if he returns to the white house. that strikes me as one of the most proximate causes of genuine constitutional crisis is a possibility if he is back

in office. >> it's probably the single administration post he's most focused on and every conversation i've had and trump's yorba. they say ag's where he's gonna need to get it right. right mean someone who will be obedient. who will do what he says without asking questions. that's why you are hearing names like ted cruz, josh hawley, mike lee, jeffrey clark. these are people who he believes in people and is orbit believe will be compliant. i don't know who he will end up picking, but that is his priority. i do think it's where you could see some of the most danger in another trump administration. >> mckay coppins, thank you. we are breaking news. columbia university where nypd officers in riot gear have been seen moving toward the campus.

those protesters you see, i believe are the counterprotesters. i don't know. outside the campus gates waving the palestinian flag in the background. the nypd expected to enter the campus imminently according to nbc news. this after a group of columbia campus protesters into a campus building and occupied it. calling similar occupation happened in 1968. in a press conference earlier tonight, new york mayor eric adams send the campus protests has been co-opted by outside agitators. tonight happens after two weeks after nypd went on the campus at the request of the university president, resting 100 students demanding the university to vest from israel. antonia hylton is outside columbia university. been reporting on this for weeks. what is going on out there? >> reporter: we are waiting for

the nypd to enter campus. we are hearing officers in riot gear are on broadway. they are on the other side of the street from where hamilton hall is. it's behind me right here. that's where we believe 60 people are barricaded inside. we know from our nbc news reporting as well as nbc news intern was a columbia student who says there are students inside the building. nypd says there's likely a presence of outside nonaffiliated actors, some of whom may be anarchists and people who have been professionally trained and are prepared for nypd response. that is some of the fear on the ground here. what happens when nypd enters? what will they encounter as they get to the doors of hamilton hall? students on all sides are feeling a sense of frustration. pro-palestinian students angry it has gotten to the point. that they couldn't have a more successful dialogue with the

university, to de-escalate. jewish students who say they are angry with the administration. they feel they said these arbitrary deadlines. they kept letting them pass. they made threats. they don't follow through on them. it has left them confuse. we spoke to a mom who came earlier to take her freshman child out because she was done. she felt things were too unstable on campus. >> stay with us and i want to bring in the dean of the columbia journalism school who was on the other night joining me by phone and been involved in negotiations. what is your understanding about the developments tonight? >> reporter: i am standing in front of butler library which is a centerpiece of the campus. the occupation has been taking place on the west lawn. the main occupation before the takeover of hamilton hall. the west lawn in front of butler library. this is about, i will say,

about 200 feet away from hamilton hall. there's massive police on the 114th street side of campus. the downtown side of campus. that street is blocked off as are several other streets. i can't verify but i'm told they were blocked off all the way down to 110th. 114th street is the closest side to hamilton hall. the suspicion is the police will enter through that gate which was locked most of the day. the suspicion is the police will enter through that gate and make entry. one thing i will point out is that there are between four and six drones flying over campus. the drones -- the arrival of the police the first time, april 18. and so, when we saw the drones

taking place, we assumed they were nypd drones. it's not legal to fly other drones over the campus. the emergent of those drones seem to signal police action was imminent. finally, there has been a shelter-in-place email that went out to the campus from the central public safety authority. it was telling people, particularly students in the dorm, if you are in a student residence housing, you should remain inside. that is roughly what's happening right now. in the background, you can probably hear the drums and chance. those are protesters inside hamilton hall rather in front of hamilton hall, and outside the gates of columbia university on amsterdam side. >> i want to bring in andrew

who is -- for the new yorker where he recently reported on how columbia's campus was torn apart over house up. you talk to a lot of folks there. it has felt like it's driving toward this point, although the decision by the president to call nypd seems to be, if you go back, the moment that all of this escalated at columbia and across the country. there were half a dozen encampments before that, now dozens across the country. >> i don't see how this has made anyone safer. i don't even see how to the self-interest of the university this helps by their own lights. the aa u.p., the professors put out a statement saying behold the administration responsible for any injuries that might be caused by nypd on campus tonight. it's not like this started when the president went to capitol

hill to be grilled by lawmakers. it's not like those republican lawmakers are happy with her now that she brought them dashes >> they are calling for her to resign. mike johnson comes to campus and says the inmates are running the asylum. i do see who is made happy or safer by this. it's a massive breach of protocol. everyone is enraged by it. i have talked to a lot of jewish scientist students who do not like the protest but have not talked to a letter dasha lott who say nypd took care of it and now we can feel safe. another thing it did is push everything outside the campus, any new yorker could come in and attended be drawn like moths to a flame and that's when you got all this escalation . it doesn't seem like there's a plan here. doesn't seem there is an and game. i noticed at brown university there was an encampment that got there main demand met.

the demand, saw this, the administration said we will have a -- and then they said pack up and go home. it seems sometimes when you talk to the protesters and negotiate dashes >> you have been involved in those negotiations and they have not gone that way at columbia. >> let me add to this. there had been negotiations up until about an hour ago, actually. probably frustrating experience for all parties involved. extensive dialogue and a number of different offers have been put on the table. the seven or eight days i have been involved in this, and so, we haven't lacked for dialogue. we have lacked for progress maybe. on the other side, there has

been concern -- here's the context. my colleague, as well, one thing worth bearing in mind here is that there is a great deal of concern about the outside elements. people who are not affiliated with columbia university. a great deal of concern at the municipal and statewide level of a possible threat to those individuals might represent whether one of them is brought a weapon on campus. people are pretty sure about the range of behavior they can anticipate from students, but there's a wildcard in terms of not knowing who is in the building. building. significant factor and i think accelerating the decision making process that has happened