police you hear students yelling from a distance. why are you in riot gear? and those police with their advisors prepared to go into columbia university as you're seeing this face off here? eric, you, in your conversations with trump as we're watching this again, unfold you asked him about something he said to sean hannity when he talked about on day one he says, trump says, you're not gonna be a dictator, are you? he's talking about a conversation with someone and he tells this person no, no. other than on day one what did he explain to you about that well, trump essentially said that he was joking that he was kidding around, that he was playing with the audience. >> trump often is able to assume this role of almost stand comedian when he's in front of an audience, when he's at his rallies, it's part of his relationship with his supporters. he entertained is them as well as speaks to them. but when i said well, sir, don't you realize that this kind of talk of dictatorship

strikes many americans as contrary? most fundamental democratic principles, yes, he said, no. in fact, he said, i think a lot of people like it all right. >> eric, thank you. and thanks to all of you. it's time for ac30, 60 good evening. >> thanks for joining our special palm time coverage and the trump hush money criminal trial. they nine saw something remarkable former president held in contempt of court and threatened with jail time. and the lawyer who represented two of the women who alleged affairs with trump, testifying about the deals he made to buy their silence, the contempt ruling made history and made the man you see there, a convicted criminal, judge, juan merchan, finding he violated the gag order. he is under nine times quoting from his ruling, this court rejects defendants arguments and finds that the people have established the elements of criminal contempt beyond a reasonable doubt. criminal contempt, no, sitting or former president has ever been found guilty of any crime before. big or small until

today. the sources of kaitlan collins was in the courtroom in a moment, we'll talk with her about what she we saw a judge one or sean phi find the former president the maximum $1,000 for each count and warned them that further violations could land him in jail is not only unique, it's totally constitution. >> judges totally conflicted, totally absolutely conflicted that easily in this case i'm supposed to be in georgia. i'm supposed to be new hampshire. i'm supposed to be in ohio. that's over the place and they have these sitting here for biden trial. that's a vitamin trial in fact, it's not and there's no evidence that it is. the judge said thursday for hearing on for other alleged gag order violations and testimony will continue thursday from former karen mcdougal and stormy daniel's attorney, keith davidson, who was on the stand today as well. and as we talked about what he said on the stand today, we're also monitoring lead developments at columbia university where protests ssrs are occupying one of the

buildings and hundreds of new york police officers, members of the department strategic response team, adjust, arrived outside campus. so we're going to continue to watch that closely and we'll bring you any updates but the trials where we turn now with us tonight, new york's criminal defense attorney arthur aidala, bestselling author and former federal prosecutor future for thuban, former defense attorney informed baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings, blake, cnn's kaitlan collins, cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, and cnn's kara scannell, who was also in the court. so caitlin karelin started for you. what were your impressions good. >> well, i mean, karen nose, this place, like the back of her hand. this is my first time inside the courtroom since the trial has started today the first thing that's so it out to me was who came inside the room with trump because i was told last week he was very sensitive to reporting that none of his allies were really there that largely, with the exception of his defense team, he was kind of a loan, one of his family had been there until today. none of his family had been there today. eric trump was there today, but it wasn't just eric trump that was in the room. it was a slew of political blades and allies as well. we saw trump's campaign

manager, a campaign adviser. we also saw the texas attorney general, ken paxton, the one that was facing impeachment a few months ago, that trump publicly supported was in there, david mackintosh from the conservative club for growth was also in there. and so it was just a notable moment to see trump's surrounded by hi, this front row of his aides, given, there, you would not really seen a ton of that. some of his political advisors and other attorneys to been in there. but you hadn't seen that level of support and clearly, he was trying to change that narrative that had emerged last week that he was largely alone in the room and eric trump was seated next to susie wiles let's the trump campaign manager, who is in the room. they were paying very close attention as the evidence was being presented, as the text messages with keith keith davidson, the witness today was on the screen. i was watching them and they were watching and reading along very closely with the rest of us in the courtroom. >> kara, what stood out to you? >> i mean, those barrage of text messages are really telling between keith davidson and dylan howard of the national enquirer as they were,

they were fits and starts them trying to get these deals together. but also the impact on the campaign was something that we saw contemporaneously. these were the text messages they sent at the time it was something they were actively concerned about, which is part of the prosecution's theory. but i also thought it was so interesting, we were already getting a sense of who michael cohen is by the adjectives and descriptions that several witnesses have used when talking about their interactions with michael cohen exactly. >> complimentary agitator they are not i mean, i wrote down a few jerk a whole aggressive barrage of insults and situations. >> and keith davidson said, the more moral of the story is no one wanted to talk to cohen. so it's already giving the jury a sense of who this guy is. so when he comes in on the stand, they won't be surprised by his personality and casey does get defensive during some of this questioning, but just think is really interesting that you're getting the sense of who he is before you've even seen him. >> and keith davidson is a really compelling witness. this this is first-time on the stand day for for people who don't

recognize his name. he was the attorney who negotiated these deals for karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. he no longer represents them. i think you're and mcdougal was unhappy with her representation. >> well, i mean, he said today that he took 45% of her six-figure cut that she got. so i don't understand that everybody involved in the de allied, karen mcdougal is also variable upset with it and was upset when he later was putting pictures of her on his website to say that she was a former client, but that notwithstanding, i mean, it's a cd world and he was very blunt about it. and text messages that he had sent, he was the one who sent the text message that said, what have we done the night of the election because he clearly thought that what they had done had benefitted trump. but he's a compelling witness. a sense that he makes jokes with the jurors at times he was making fun, making very clear how he felt about michael cohen at times comparing into a squirrel, even a written account of what you gave, just notes that he was making eye contact with the jury, like he debited would actually address the jury. yeah. so when prosecutors would ask him a question, he sometimes look directly the prosecutor, but often i would notice karen are both sitting in there. he would look directly at the jury's

who's kinda telling a story. it wasn't just a yes or no answer. he was very genuine seeming as he was providing this testimony, and he would sometimes get asked a question what did this person mean to you? and they said that trump is really tight with money or something like that and he would kind of pause and you but trump is sitting there person is lives, and then you would say that trump is very frugal. he also drew through line between trump and michael cohen had said he very much believed that trump was behind these negotiations. >> and just in my experience, prosecutors do encourage a witness to talk to the jury. if they can. >> it's a really interesting tactical point. i never actually told a witness where to look because the last can you wanted them to do is get cross-examined on he told you everything including where to look, but there's really two ways this happens some jurors don't want to break that fourth wall and so if let's say two bins cross examining me, they're only looking at the lawyer back-and-forth. others are looking right into the jury box and sort of communicating. and i obviously like the latter, if the person is credible and personable and based on kaitlan and qarrah

account, it sounds like keith davidson was now if it's a really dangerous, scary, violent guy, then i don't want them looking in the jury box if he's my cooperating witness because you don't want them freaked out, but it sounds to me from your account, kaitlan like davidson made a reasonable legitimate connection with the jury, which you're happy with as a prosecutor? >> because a former defense attorney, would you encourage witnesses to me if you have a witness coming up like michael cohen, who is abrasive and has been sluggish in the past in his behavior when he was working for trump and clearly has lied is it good that these prosecution witnesses are sort of giving advance warning that he's not that pleasant and all these things so that the jury isn't necessarily surprised. that's already built-in. >> michael cohen knows who he is. i don't think he's surprised at all about any of the a whole jerk squirrel. he owns it. and i think it's important for the for the jury to have a sense of who is

coming on that we're not the prosecution is not trying to make michael cohen something that he is not he they are showing the jury, this is who he is, but these are the facts. so you might think he's a whole squirrel, whatever but he's telling the truth and we have receipts are there. >> i mean, there's an attorney would it doesn't take some of the sting out of like, if a juror doesn't like michael cohen when he starts testify, if they've already been kinda four warned, you may not like this guy. does that help you start from the beginning? >> i mean, when i was an idea, i had like little crackheads from brooklyn. they but they were my main this is you would vod year the jury and say my main witness is someone who's going to tell you that they've been arrested five times that the night in question they had a crack pipe in their pocket. but who do you think was going to be in the crack then when when that guy at the defense table shot the deceit east so yeah, i'm telling you right now and anderson, those of us who are old enough to remember

john gati in that trial, who put them in prison? sammy the bull bravado, we killed 19 people. so it's a hurdle. that michael cohen thing that was large hurdle. yeah. but they got over. there, was convicted. be clear. he conspired 19 times. he didn't shoot everyone i mean, let's be fast. ready to write that he admitted to who knows where but the thing with michael cohen, the question that the prosecution is certainly going to ask the jury is yes, he was in a hall. >> yes, he was obnoxious. yes, he was a squirrel, whatever that means i don't. know who was he. doing it, for? for whose benefit why was he so why don't we will employed him for years and years and wanted him to be like exactly. >> so i i think many of us here i know elie has i had my own dealings with michael cohen when he worked for trump and he screamed at me in a similar way, but it it was very clear to me that it was because he was advocating for donald trump. and that's gonna be the

argument to this jury. but advocating and you're right. he was advocating, but i say things on behalf of clients that the client didn't tell me to say the client doesn't even know what i'm saying. i'm advocating and i would think one of the defenses here is going to be like, hey, michael cohen, was a lone wolf. michael cohen, he had such a vested interests himself in making donald trump the president, because probably you, michael cohen's why he thought he was gonna be the attorney general, the united states of america will be on the supreme court of the united states, will become a billionaire himself. so i think that has to embrace michael cohen's embrace liveness embraces lone wolf attitude and say, trump didn't tell him to do this. he was doing this on his own. >> but keith davidson did not testify that today keith davidson testified that michael cohen made clear in every chance he got that he was working for donald trump and and he was doing things on his horse. that's his strain. i'm not to saving the polls saying the boss told me to do i'm not done yet. >> he also testified that michael cohen, it was very clear was acting on trump's

behalf that michael cohen would not be able to act with his own authority, that he was acting on donald trump's authority that was given. let me jeff, i want to read part of the gag order ruling where the judge addresses trump's claim that that reposts of his comments or retweets or not violations, which is an argument trump has made ad infinitum for years now, the judge said, quote, it is counterintuitive, indeed absurd to read the expanded order to not prescribe statements that defendant intentionally selected and published to maximize exposure. this is not to say that a reposts will always be deemed a statement of the poster as context is directly relevant. however, here under the unique facts and circumstances of this case, the only credible findings that the repost constitutes statements of the defendant. you think there's really a significant and also what occurred today is historic. i think it is historic and i think we need to pause and recognize what a big deal this is not just in this trial, but in broad scope of american history, donald trump today is a convicted criminal. >> this is not a civil

judgment. this is not a slip slap on the wrist. this is a finding of criminal contempt that had to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, and that's what the judge did well, the voters care beats the hell out of me, but this is something that i think is worth recognizing that has never come close to happening before in american history. >> lagc that one. >> yeah, i think it's a fair point by jeff, i think we had a very, very powerful ruling by the judge. i mean, we're waiting on this thing and the judge came through with i think exactly what he needed to do to reassert control of that courtroom. i mean, trump had run wild with this violated nine times. there's going to be hearing on thursday. i'm sure that will be for more violations. there's four more at issue. i'm sure the judge will find three or four of them. the judge had to get control and he's run very good trial so far. he's running efficient trial he's keeping things moving within the courtroom itself. it's quite orderly, but trump was going nuts on the outside and he was

flagrantly violating the gag order. the judge put his foot down and let's see what happens from here on out because now the judges said, if you do it again, i reserve the right, if necessary. he says if necessary big if i will imprison you but let's see, because trump hasn't violated this thing in fiber. so days, so new record. i going to give a sense of how this judge runs this courtroom he spoken he said, i found trump had violated the gag order nine times within the first ten minutes, said handed down the order and then it was back to business. bring the jury and so until you read the order, you didn't see the strength of the language in there. he just did it very matter of fact, lay off the top and then brought the witnesses in and kept the jury in the case on track to more of this amount. >> we're going to take a quick break, a closer look next. also, the trial transcript, including more and the testimony keith davidson about michael cohen and his recollection back in 2018 of his first first encounter with them also tonight, tension growing at columbia university. there's a video we've just gotten what it looks like right now on campus, outside hamilton hall, which is the bill holding, there has been occupied by protesters, photos,

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>> looking in new york's morningside heights neighborhood and columbia university, a hundreds of new york police officers have gathered on broadway outside the university, just steps away from hamilton hall, which is the building. the protests are occupied late last night. and continue to hold onto or going to continue to monitor the situation, break-in with any new developments as they come in back to the trial going through attorney and keep davidson's testimonies. we've been discussing already. it's not hard to feel the looming presence of michael cohen or anticipate how his testimony, demeanor may land with a jury. they've got a pretty good sense of it today, but it was out there already back in 2018, was seen as sort of sidon or talk to davidson about his dealings with cohen? he told sarah then that his first contact with michael cohen was in 2011 when stormy daniels, as davidson to demand a website removed the story of her alleged affair with donald trump, and davidson called cohen what was that conversation? like?

>> when i think it's a lot of chest pounding yeah, to the best of my recollection, it was a lot of you know, how how dare you and you will chase you to the ends of the earth. and this is not a true story and we're going to come and get you you said, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold your horses and that's not at all the reason for our calling and we said that misdiagnosis does not want the story up and we're gonna do our best to take it down. >> journey sang with more of what keith david's and said on the stance seen as john berman who has the transcript that gets released late in the day so davidson recounted that 2011 phone call on the stand today. >> yeah. he said much the same thing in the sand. that he said to my morning partners, they're assigned her right there. he recounted being called initially by gina rodriguez, who was stormy daniels publicist, and keith davis quote, gina called me up to tell me that quote, some jerk called me and was very, very aggressive and threatened to sue me. and i i would you like keith to call this i hate to ask it this way. but who was

that jerk? >> davidson responds it was michael cohen and then a little bit later, davidson testifies. i called i was transferred to michael cohen. i introduce myself before i could barely get my name out. i was just met with like a hustle barrage of insults and insinuation in allegations that went on for quite a while. stein glass, the prosecutor asks, what was the gist of what he was accusing you? to of davidson says, i don't think he was accusing us of anything he was just screaming and jeffrey, i know you've reported on kaitlyn. i know you probably had a relation with michael cohen way back when i covered trump way back to 2012. and this is how michael cohen would interact with you when he spoke to you? it was generally screaming and trump's attorney, i should note, was grinning points when he was when keith davidson was testifying that i never saw trump himself laughing, but but even trump's team was laughing. i mean, everyone who knows michael cohen knows how michael cohen is. and as he was saying that when they had to say i hate to ask you a silly question, but who was that jerk and he made clear was talking about michael cohen. it did

prompt around of laughter in the corner court room, by the way. that's the prosecution who's going to be calling him as their main witness which is the jerk and angry and aggressive stuff that that's that's not good. >> but what's even a bigger problem for the prosecution's at this same witness said, quote that later who is talking to michael cohen and said, i don't believe a word really that you say. i mean, if he's mean are a jerk fine. who cares? >> but if the prosecution's witnesses saying i don't believe a word this guy was saying to me, david pepper earlier said he is prone to exaggeration. >> the banker who started off today said he basically lied to me about every aspect of this transaction is going around his wives back, didn't tell me it was political. so the defense on closing, you i mean so yeah, i'm stephanie in arthur, you would have a field de with it. do just the logistics of it as it's criminal defense attorney. i'm old school. i'm not very digital. i'm very analog. so when these things are happening, i have a file that says cohen on it. right. and all of these little lines i'm just write blue room or i'll find the transcript that night and i just put it in, put it and put it out and put it in and then whatever it is, a

couple of days a week before colin's up there you just start trying to lock michael cohen the way the prosecutors laying this foundation in your cross-examination, you have to lay the foundation and you did speak to silent and you did speak to this one. you did speak to that one and then you could stick it up as nose in summation and just say, folks, we're going to go piece by piece all the, all of the prosecutors witnesses. this isn't me, mr. aidala, telling you that witnesses a liar. this is their witnesses telling you their with their the prosecution is clearly trying to get ahead of this of his credibility issues by trying to get as much corroborating evidence, in as possible. and that's why you have these documents that are not the most exciting things to look here about on a stand, but they actually backups. other things go and say, a lot of this is has been boring, but it is laying the foundation brick by brick. and that foundation seems to be very, very strong because they know at the top is going to be a very shaky witness. they can say he's a

jerk, they can say he's a whole, they can say he's aggressive. >> he was he was trump's bulldog and he was acting just in the way that trump wants his current attorneys to add in very aggressive ways. >> so they are building they are building this foundation. i think very well to be able to support what michael cohen is going to say. >> the classic prosecutor line in response to the attacks on a cooperator like this, are the he supposedly ally or how can the prosecution asked you to rely on a witness like this? and the prosecutor says, we didn't choose michael cohen to be the witness. donald trump chose him and it'd be the witness because he's the one who chose to do all these transactions with him. and you know, obviously that doesn't work all the time, but there are lots of people in prison on the testimony of people who are a lot worse than michael coe switching because i mean, if i'm a juror sitting on this and just seeing the cavalcade of the ami people, the pecker,

the michael cohen. all these people, the amount of sort of just sleazy amount yeah. but but that is the milieu that donald trump has been living in his entire life. basically, it seems like these are the people he's federalizing with. and in many both sexually and socially allegedly alleged and yeah. >> and there's so much cross-pollination every which way with all of these witnesses and all the various stories, you don't even keith davidson was asked about the access hollywood tape for incident. it was very interesting because the prosecution use keith davidson to point out that there was a shift when the access hollywood tape came out, steinglass, the prosecutor asks, what impact if any, did the release of the access hollywood tape have on interests in the stormy daniels story so far as you are aware, davidson says, so far as i'm aware, it had tremendous influence. steinglass asked, can you explain that a little bit to the jury, please? davidson says before yes. before access hollywood, there was very little if any

interests from what i understand in jena, jena rodriguez was trying to sell the stormy daniels donald trump story. it wasn't until access hollywood that interests reached a crescendo. does it matter? do you think for jurors that the former president and i don't know if it's it probably hasn't been an admitted yet into evidence, but i assume prosecutors will at some point somehow that the former president denies even knowing these two women, karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. and you've already had david pecker saying multiple times that trump would repeatedly ask, how's our girl karen and even showed that black and white photo of them walking in the white house. and according to david pecker, at the time that photo was taken, trump has asking her aac, how's karen doing and david pecker's answering? i mean, does that does that if he lied about that, would as a juror, would that impact the way they said the former president's sure. this is important exactly. the reason they had that c-span

witness and the court reporter was because they're starting to show prosecutors are starting to show the jury videotapes of donald trump saying, i don't know these people who are these people? well and that's powerful for prosecutors because we don't know if donald trump is going to take the stand. i'm still on. no. firmly know. >> but you still want the jurors to hear his voice, especially when he's lying. now, it's not the ultimate end issue, but you want the jurors hearing him lying about what he knows about these people because you say, why would you lie about this if he had nothing to hide, why would you lie about this? fortnight, it's the worst when you're a criminal defense attorney you can't cross examined it, right? >> it's your guy. >> it's a tape or film or video. it's real. >> and you're like, wow so in one situation where i was confronted with this and it was really horrible evidence and summation, i just took every single word and broke it down and try to play the source within and try to change the definition of what the person was actually saying. >> but anderson, it is when you're aiming, there were times when your defense attorney, you just said, oh, jeez how am i

what am i going to do here? what am i? especially when your client goes out of the courtroom and berates the judge and then you gotta go in and you're the lawyer the next day he's got to deal with them. >> do you wanna see oh, i was just going to say that the were showing that trump is a liar, liar, pants on fire. and one of the old sayings is everybody can't be lie at a certain point. >> yeah. yeah. good. take it for what it's worth more head on. the history made in courts today. coming up next though the latest from columbia university, where the school is emergency management team just send out a text to students telling them to quote, shelter in place. we'll have lab reports ahead. >> i hear that music and my feature start tapping my grandchildren, their sixth generation of dancers what my family's all about i thought i knew a lot about are irish roots. i was surprised to learn so many more things from an said that's 391892.

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progress when the genes came out, i thought, oh my god, when bob has a friend, he expects blind loyalty surprises, surprises long ago senior learned that columbia university's emergency management team has texted students to shelter in place. >> this is a heavy police presence has been building just outside the university gates of the past several hours. after new york's mayor told protesters who took over school building, quote, this month plus to n now, short time ago,

cnn reporters saw the arrival in new york police department's strategic response unit outside columbia's campus on broadway, where the whole area has been shut down several reports now, starting with our miguel marquez, miguel, explain where you are and what you're seeing we're at 114th and broadway's would have just down from the main gates of columbia. want to show you what's happening here. that's a massive number of police officers who are now moving in with the helmets, with the bats as well. and they are lining up on the east side of broadway nearest the university what's the mayor and nypd has said all day is that they needed permission from colombia to do this. clearly, they have worked out a plan and they are waiting for that permission and our mark morales tells us that nypd says are columbia says that they will be sending that permission that letter for them to move in on both the encampment in the main lawn of columbia and into

hamilton hall, where protesters broke into overnight and have been hanging banners throughout the day. one of them said intifada, which the white house itself released a statement saying that that's not a peaceful thing to do. and said it was anti-semitic and terrible rhetoric for those new here at 1:14, i do want to say you can't if you could just come around this way, there is a small number of protestors here who have been chanting at police who are, who have shut off one 14 but the main road, the police the police officers in front of us are keeping this road shut. but the main brunt of police officers who have the helmets and they're bats and our on broadway now, the closest way into where the encampment is, just down one 14, there are gates there that they would be able to get through the bookstore for columbia. can if you could just turn up broadway here. that's one 15th might up there.

>> the bookstore is just up there there's another way into the campus there that's a direct access to where the encampment is we expect that we will see police moving in and several these areas. >> we were up at one 16th and broadway, which is the main entrance to columbia earlier. and that entrance, it's completely shut down. there was a large number of protesters there early they marched up broadway. it's not clear what they're is marching two other protesters have stayed on the amsterdam sayyed on the other side of campus is another big main gate there protesters are there, but that's nearest to where the building they take over as but it looks like all of the activity. and were police will go through is in here i'm looking over here. it does look like police are bringing in even more barricades for hours and hours today, they've been bringing in these barricades to shut down broadway. broadway shutdown both north and south is an extraordinary move by police are shut down this major intersection. so they clearly have been working on this plan for some time. it's just a

matter of having that legal okay. to do it. and it sounds like that is coming very who are on the campus. the only people who can be on the campus are essential workers or students students say there's nothing happening on campus right now. it's very tense, but they are waiting like everybody else, anderson, miguel marquez, stay right there. we'll come back to you. cnn reported julia vargas jones is on the other side of the gates on campus outside hamilton hall that is currently being occupied really explain what the scene is there, like right now and show us around sure. >> anderson. we are right outside hamilton hall. i'm going to step way so you can have a better sense of the scene. this is the building that protests there's had been occupying for almost 20 hours now, there's a human chain that's been formed by others supporters of these students and just as there are inside of hamilton hall, their aim is not let police get to protesters that are inside the barricade or you can see this pulley

system anderson, they're putting things in this water that's been going up and down all day. i've been here since about six in the morning and i could only get in because i am a student at the time, students were allowed on campus at this point only if you live on campus or jareh essential worker, like you said, can actually be here or enter. >> there's very few people on campus feeling, as i spoke to students three undergraduate students, one of them jewish, about the feeling of being caught in-between and what is down to be a standoff this all around here all of these are dorms. >> people live here students live here they're just, you can see, people are just watching from their windows waiting to see what happens. one of them said, you know, we are waiting to see the new york police department come in now, rest are potentially some of our

classmates. >> obviously, we don't know who is inside the building. >> we know that there was a lot of violence that happened to get into it, but some of them the hearing, our students are affiliated with columbia and the big question is, what will the university do so let me ask you, julia it looks like, it looks like there's about maybe i don't know, 50 students or people. >> i don't know if they're all students. some of them are masked and hiding their identities standing outside this door. do you have any idea how many people are actually inside the building are barricaded inside? >> yes. anderson has been really difficult to get information from the protesters because they won't talk to the media. so what i have heard and trying to speak to them is a few dozen perhaps a couple of protesters are inside. you can see them up there. you can see them up on the balcony like

some of the folks but stormed the building yesterday at about wealth 30 yesterday, by the way, there was also a human chain that was formed by other supporters to try and keep them in there all day. they're having people coming in and out and chanting and trying to in trying to prevent anyone else from getting in is you may or may are adams and police officials said late today that they believe outside actors have co-opted or been involved with the protest there on campus. i know some like, experienced protest organizers have been seen on campus. there's videos of that. what, if anything, have you seen or heard people say about that again, some of these people are masked. so it's very hard to identify who they actually are yeah, and there's i mean, you're touching on the point people don't want us to know

they're identity. >> those were going to interview someone i asked them their first and last name. >> none of that is being shared with us. >> and you know, i'm i'm a student, i am a member of the columbia community. even even i am not trusted by some of the organizers here. so it's really difficult to get that kind of information on what we see. so we have been trying to be here as much as possible to see and witness and i have been here all day, but this because, all we can see, i don't know who the agitators are that i know that there have been reports of that. i don't know also because all of these people are inside, they've been coming out there thanking the food and the support and in that's it. that's all of the window that we have. and then we see the mood from other students is basically just they feel caught in the middle. >> they feel like the administration has committed some mistakes in escalating the situation by allowing new york police department to come in and arrest more than 100

students about two weeks ago when the situation was not so dire. >> and at the same time, they think that this is an escalation on the part of the protesters for a student that's just tried to the class. this is finals week where a couple of weeks away from graduation, i'm supposed to graduate. we have no idea what is going to happen it is obviously a huge disruption in also changes the mood on camera. it's not just the logistics. it's pitting people. it's dividing people and putting people against each other. >> anderson, there were reports on some college campuses of professors, people teaching classes suggesting classes be on-scene of protests in order to show solidarity with protesters. have you heard of that at at columbia at all? and i'm wondering how that kind of thing is received to what degree are faculty involved in encouraging there had been

members of faculty and staff after that we're for example, in the human chain that was formed around last night? >> yes. >> i didn't see that. i wasn't here, but those are the reports that i heard from students that were here and there are classes be held off campus. so all classes we move to parts roles so it's like colombia has been doing, but some professors have wanted to have students meet because it is a time of heightened tensions and it makes sense that people want to be together to also figured out them process all of it. like i said, people have been pitted against each other for backing each other into corners. so so thing that dialogue might be important for the community too. eventually become to heal which things so far from the possibility right now yeah. >> i mean, i went to college in the 80s. >> there were a lot of anti-apartheid protests and the camp meant on the campus where

i went to school at yale. but it didn't pitt students against each other. there weren't you know, i'm sure there was a lot of disagreements, but there wasn't this kind of animosity in these incidents of of hostility between shouting matches between students. that's got to be really distressing and we saw right at the beginning of the protests, we saw israel flags and us flags being flown right next to palestinian flags and people in coffee is in a traditional palestinian scarf it's difficult to observe that and just to think, how do you move forward? >> how can you actually come to a solution here is standing outside of m two what is going to happen, how these students are removed tonight by by nypd, what the sentiment of all the other supporters. of course, i'm sure that many people will be revealed to not have

essentials on campus. >> but how how do we go back to normal? i think that's the question, that the university isn't really addressing. yet. it doesn't seem like there's a plan. now i'm speaking to you as a student. i haven't heard a plan of how do we move forward from this. i mean, for me, i graduate all along with the other 15,000 people that are supposed to graduate in a couple of weeks, which by the way a commencement structures already been set up in the lawn right across from here. clearly, that's what's on the mind of the university, but i don't now what happens in the people form now years like columbia julia vargas jones. thank you. stay with us. if you can. i please stay there. and if you could keep that camera live. if you're able to on the people behind you, that would be great. charles ramsey, a former police commissioner and philadelphia police chief of washington, dc, joins us now commissioner, i mean, just from a policing standpoint, does the ordered to shelter in place from the university to students signal to you that something may happen imminently

absolutely it does. i mean, you're trying to keep as many students away from that location as possible. i mean, this action is overdue in my opinion, the university has been very slow in responding or what's going on. there's no longer a peaceful protests forced their way into the building. done damage inside that building it's time for this to stop in nypd will be making entry once they get permission from the university obviously there'll be some confrontation there. people in there had been already worn and told to leave. they refuse to leave. i imagine a barricaded doors first. and so forth. but the police will have to get them out of there as well as dismantle the encampment as we've said, and seen, in, is reporting a hundreds of officers from the nypd's strategic response team or outside columbia's campus tonight. >> i know you're seeing the i believe you're seeing the images that we are seeing on the left-hand side of this

greene and police officers, they have a riot helmets on it looks like they probably have i'm not sure what else they would have on them what kind of a response unit is that? do you know? >> well i mean, most large departments have something very similar to that dc we called a cdu civil disturbance units. these are officers that are specially trained for crowd control and events. so that they're called, they're all over the city. it brought him you can't just strip anyone district because you still have 911 calls. the answer sure. so there's a plan on how many people to bring in from the various districts and divisions they have throughout new york city they're going to have a significant presence. there to take care of this. in fact, you always try to have an overwhelming presence. it really does keep down the possibility of people getting injured. now, the officers have their full gear on because they're gonna get hit with projectiles. there's absolutely

no question in my mind about that. this is not going to be easy and it's not going to look very pretty, but they're gonna get it done they will use whatever force they have to use, but it'll be proportional. but it will not look good, but they will get it done in this should have been done a couple of days ago at least a couple of days ago, university's been behind the curve on this from the beginning. >> yeah. i mean, just from a tactical concern, the fact that the you have people inside that building had been there all day and people outside passing them things. i mean, we've just seen a bucket with whatever going being on a rope going up to them and the reporter on scene was saying that that's been going on all day if somebody inside wanted to have projectiles, they could throw at law enforcement as they approach, they seem to have had time to have stuff brought in if that is what they have we know we don't know what their intentions are there's a law

enforcement source at official and a lot enforcement official tells cnn that they believe at least half of the demonstrators are not affiliated with the university, would that surprise you? i mean, how would that change the calculus for a potential law enforcement response it does not surprise me at all. >> in fact, i'd be surprised with majority worst but once they get in there to people who are not students need to be arrested, charged with trespassing, damage to property and any students that are part of that, in my opinion, should be expelled from the university. you have to make a strong statement. i mean, this is not unlike january 6 where they'd you just bum rush your way into a building, just forcibly take it over? you can't do that. that is part of the protests that i have seen over the years. and then fact that i have benefited from in my career, but not been for the civil rights protests of the 50s and 60s. i never would observe as police commissioner and affiliate or washington dc

i don't i appreciate protests, but lawful protest that what you're seeing here, this is not lawful. it's got to stop. they got to take the action and they will take it it is ensuring chief ram sam and i was looking up, it's from the history of protests and columbia and in the 60s against the war in vietnam, you did have buildings being occupied and in some cases, even school officials being held are not allowed to leave those buildings that were being occupied by students in negotiations would take place. i think that was the last time that police were actually called on to the campus bother you? firstly, i think in 68 to respond to some of that well, i've started my policing career in chicago in 1968, late 1968, became a sworn member and 71. so i was part of the group that had to deal with a lot of the vietnam war protests, which got pretty violent at times. and so i've seen it and i've seen how these things it's

going to spin out of control. and this is a perfect example of something that is really spun out of control. it started off as a peaceful protests obviously there were issues anti-semitism and things like that that should not be taking place but it was relatively peaceful, but it didn't take long before you get outside agitators that attach themselves to legitimate protesters out, i'll call other just there because they do believe in a particular cause. the other folks are there to cause problems. and that's what you have right here. and so you're going to see when they finally get the word to go in and they will go in and they will clear that building. it will clear that encampment, but it's going to take all night probably to really get it done. >> it chief ramsey, hold on for us. i want to bring in also as we continue to look at these images, the split-screen of the hall that's occupied, you see other demonstrators outside forming a line and then you obviously you see the growing

police gathering outside. i want to bring in stephanie rawlings, blake, former baltimore mayor, who's sitting here with us. mary's. you are watching this, i'm sure you have dealt. i use certainly dealt with all the demonstrations in baltimore and even i'm sure the occupation and buildings what do you see? what what are the things jump out at you? >> it's a little triggering because you see what i know is happening when you have these instances the what the, what the main thing is no longer the main thing like what the moral test that people are are fighting for is being taken over by outside protesters that i think mockery of what many of the students are standing up for a lot of this is pro palestine, but also anti-war people are very upset about the amount of of loss of life. but when you, when you take over the building you lose that,

you're losing the moral high ground. i have to ask myself, when is that worked? when you destroy property and takeover the building like that. so i think these outside protestors are co-opting what could have been a useful all productive conversation about columbia's participation in israel. and i think a lot of that just lost because of the way that this has really gone off track. >> we're going to continue to monitor the situation around columbia university, bring you any developments as they happen. it seems like something may be happening soon. we're obviously going to bring to you live. we're going to also return to today's trial and more of the contest and wales between judge marchand and the former president and faces the possibility of jail if he continues to violate the judge's gag order, we'll be right back. every the piece of evidence tells a story how would really happen jesse. >> oh, martin, sunday's at

nine on cnn from meat free monday to sizzle pans sunday so many ways to save life ready while it happy, that's 3605 by whole foods market sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with faking, unpack once, and get closer to iconic landmarks local life, and cultural treasures because when you experienced europe on a viking long ship, you will spend less time getting there and more time being that viking exploring the world in comfort so as we continue to monitor developments at columbia university were also bringing special continuing coverage of trump's hush money trial. the first criminally charged us

president. now also the first to be held in criminal contempt for multiple violations of the gag order nine to be exact, out of ten online post in question, judge juan merchan making that ruling this morning after taking a week to mold over trump's punishment for attacking expect to trial witnesses and others. one $1,000 for each violation. the maximum that's $9,000 in total for now, there's another hearing scheduled thursday for four more additional alleged violations meantime, the form president is responded online posting. this judge has taken away my constitutional right to free speech. and the only presidential candidate in history to be gagged is only write on the latter, but that's a result of his own actions. and if he keeps breaking the judge's rules, it could get worse quoting the judge. now, defendant is hereby warn that the court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders, and that if necessary, it will impose are incarcerate tori punishment i want to go to miguel mark it looks like the police may be moving in a columbia. let's go back, miguel, what are you seeing

we're i can hear you. >> i can hear you can you hear me? yeah. i got you now so on broadway, police have just moved us over to another location on broadway. >> you can see a large number of police, but they've just brought in many, many, dozens more. you can see actually they're coming back ford us now dozens and dozens of police officers with the riot helmets, with their pitons and with the flexi cuffs, moving down one 14 toward broadway. now, they just move down this way the closest you can get to where the encampment is, if he would come over here can is just down here all the way down. one 14 on sort of the middle of the block between amsterdam and broadway that's the closest you can get. that seems to be where police are setting up in the largest numbers. it seems that police here can actually come over here. this is actually

interesting so police are both on the streets. they're also on the sidewalk because a lot of this is student housing in here and students have come out to see what's happening on this side. there was a small not of protesters on one 14 on that side. it's a very chaotic situation, but it does sound like columbia, which clearly had had it with the protesters once they didn't leave after the deadline yesterday at 2:00 p.m. and then took over a hamilton hall they've been working with nypd today. clearly just to sort this out, we expect that at any moments they will have the legal authority from columbia university in the form of a letter asking nypd to come in and asking the police to come in and clear the protesters. this is interesting. so this is a building across the street from columbia and police are now making entry into that building. it's not clear what's happening. officer, do you know what's happening

here? why are they going in that building? so it sounds like this may have been a situation where students come out of a dorm, mixed it up with police and then police are now moving into that building to try to keep those crowds from hustling them. this was filled just a few minutes ago. this was filled this 100143 here filled with students and it is police have now moved everybody out back into their dorms and off the streets here. so clearly they are, it's one more step they are taking to lock down this entire area before they move into columbia university proper, to clear both the encampment. yeah. and hamilton hall and the girl holding we'll let us know if any of the thing develops. i would quick i want to get our shimon prokupecz, who is nearby your location, but just a different vantage point. she tell us where you are, what you're seeing so we're on broadway, anderson we're action in an area where it's completely frozen, but we've

been able to stay here because of the business here. we've been on their property because the police several times have asked us to move. so we're able to stay here. what's going on here is you have a group of protesters that have gathered here on 113th and broadway police have been making several announcements for them to disperse, to leave. and so far they have not moved into make any arrests, but significant here, anderson has if you look at the shot that we have up here now, those are the search teams. they were some of the first officers to respond here i would expect him to meet some of the first officers inside the encampment they are lining up. they were here earlier aligning up. they left to go deal with something else and they have since come back. they have been discussing the strategy, the planning here. their chief telling them when you go inside, put your advisors down, because we expect to get things thrown at us. >> hey, miguel, what you're also seeing, some of these other let me just quickly ask you, were seeing on the

right-hand side of her skin, we're seeing your shot in the left-hand side and the right-hand side, we're also seeing one of the columbia gates with protesters sort of on top of it looking in are those do you know where that is and it that near you? >> and are those protesters who are not able to get onto campus because they're not students i don't really want to be where they know anderson. >> okay. >> i don't know if that's for me, but i don't know where that is. >> okay. >> sorry. you continue with what you're saying. i don't know where that is yeah. >> so the officers that are gathered here, it appears that they're here more to sort of protect the perimeter because we're seeing people arrive here protesters in the area. there are barricades everywhere, and officers just keep continuing to arrive. i mean, this is such a massive response and now you're seeing here more surge. they're moving in anderson now, we're seeing the surge officers here. move forward. the other officers are now moving forward. we could see them

moving we're trying to get through some of these vehicles here that are blocking us with the police appear to be moving we're trying to get a sense of exactly where they're moving to it's not entirely clear so he shimon, can you tell what street you're on? so i'm now on one 14 and broadway. and it seems the officers here, we're trying to not get thrown out of here in the sense, okay so let me just tell you, or reviewers shimon that the gate we're seeing on the shimon on the left-hand side of your screen is at one 14th and broadway. >> what you're seeing on the right-hand side of your screen, that's another entrance to columbia gate. that's been closed protesters cannot get into i assume because they're not students identities are being checked. that gate is at one 16th in amsterdam avenue that's an, uh, different sayyed of columbia. go ahead. shimon, continue to tell us what you're seeing right? >> so