welcome to hardtalk from helsinki. i am stephen sackur. from this vantage point, looking out of the gulf of finland and with the russian borderjust two hours drive away, it is easy to understand the strategic significance of finland joining nato, the strategic significance of finlandjoining nato, much the strategic significance of finland joining nato, much to moscow's dismay, the baltic sea is now very much nato�*s back yard, and that long russia finland border is a zone of rising tension. my guest today is the president of finland, alexander stubb. hasjoining alexander stubb. has joining nato really alexander stubb. hasjoining nato really boosted finland's security?

president alexander stubb, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. let me begin _ welcome to hardtalk. thank you. let me begin with _ welcome to hardtalk. thank you. let me begin with something - welcome to hardtalk. thank you. let me begin with something you| let me begin with something you said just last month, europe, you said, hasjust said just last month, europe, you said, has just a few years to change its thinking from the la la land of post—cold war complacency. what is this la la land you're talking about? it is probably in international relations i think there is or was a time when a big change happens, 1918, 1945, 1989, and 1989 was for me and many of my kin the end of history, the thought that all 200 member states in the world would revert to the best form of governance, which is democracy, market economy and globalisation. but that ended in my mind in february 2022 when putin attacked ukraine. all the international institutions, rules are being challenged, so the la la land

that were used to live and does not exist anymore and we have to readjust. in not exist anymore and we have to readjust-— to read'ust. in the most literal to readjust. in the most literal sense _ to readjust. in the most literal sense you - to readjust. in the most literal sense you seem l to readjust. in the most. literal sense you seem to to readjust. in the most - literal sense you seem to be saying that europe needs to learn from some of the things that finland does, in terms of preparation and readiness for the worse case scenario. for example, this country, although it is fewer than 6 million people, has an extraordinary number of military reservists, up number of military reservists, up to 900,000 men and women who are ready to serve, all young men go through conscription, they have to, indeed i think yourson they have to, indeed i think your son is doing it right now. yes, he is. i your son is doing it right now. yes. he is-_ yes, he is. i think most finns have access _ yes, he is. i think most finns have access to _ yes, he is. i think most finns have access to a _ yes, he is. i think most finns have access to a banker, - have access to a banker, protection, should there be war. is your message that the rest of europe has to do this too? ., ., , ., rest of europe has to do this too? ., ., ,, .,, rest of europe has to do this too? ., ., y., ., ., rest of europe has to do this too? ., ., ,, .,, ., ., too? no, not everyone has to do it because _ too? no, not everyone has to do it because they _ too? no, not everyone has to do it because they don't _ too? no, not everyone has to do it because they don't have - too? no, not everyone has to do it because they don't have 1340. it because they don't have 1340 kilometres of border with russia. which is double that border inside nato. what we have done this we have understood what russia is all about. it is an aggressive

imperialist state was that we have had 30 wards or skirmishes with russia since the 1300. because we are front line states, we need to be prepared. that is why we have general conscription, that is why we have 280,000 we can mobilise in wartime, that's why we have 62 f 185 wartime, that's why we have 62 f 18s why we just bought 64 f-355 f 18s why we just bought 64 f—35s and why we have long range missiles in the air, land and sea, we don't have them because we are worried about sweden. ., , , ~ , sweden. no, it 'ust strikes me, are ou sweden. no, it 'ust strikes me, you really — sweden. no, itjust strikes me, are you really the _ sweden. no, itjust strikes me, are you really the same - are you really the same alexander stubb i spoke to ten years ago, when you were prime minister and you are trying to persuade me that finland and europe should learn to work in partnership with russia. you said nord stream is a great idea, we need access to cheap russian energy. he said we in finland are going to build nuclear power with russian cooperation. and it's good for finland. he said we need to learn to trust these russians. you got it absolutely wrong yourself. you got it absolutely wrong ourself. �* ., , yourself. and educators absolutely _ yourself. and educators absolutely yes. - yourself. and educators absolutely yes. i - yourself. and educators absolutely yes. i think | yourself. and educators| absolutely yes. i think in

politics is very important to understand that you make mistakes and learn from it. i asked myself, not every day, but quite often, why? the basic idea was very european, that by integrating together, you actually push forward cooperation. now, did i support nord stream? yes, i was in government. did i want more nuclear power? yes, i did... and you ignored clear signs, actually as foreign minister of finland you are heavily involved in europe is like response to russia using its forces in georgia in 2008. yes. you decided — forces in georgia in 2008. yes. you decided that _ forces in georgia in 2008. yes. you decided that a _ forces in georgia in 2008. jazz you decided that a pragmatic deal, whereby georgia defected last swathes of territory was the right thing to do, with no punishment. for russia. then you watch the 2014 annexation of crimea, russian military in the donbass, again you decided that it was right to continue to seek cooperation with russia, you personally ignored all the signals of putin's

expansionist ambitions. all the signals of putin's expansionistambitions. i all the signals of putin's expansionist ambitions. i think there might — expansionist ambitions. i think there might be _ expansionist ambitions. i think there might be some - expansionist ambitions. i think there might be some friends . there might be some friends that would challenge that hypothesis because after immediate peace in georgia, i came back and said the what has changed and we need to change the world in which we approach with russia. i was very bullish on sanctions, i wanted finland tojoin nato. in on sanctions, i wanted finland to join nate-— to join nato. in 2018 you described _ to join nato. in 2018 you described sergei - to join nato. in 2018 you described sergei lavrov, foreign minister of russia and one of the great defenders of putin you described him as "an old friend". putin you described him as "an old friend'-_ old friend". yes, this was 2018, not _ old friend". yes, this was 2018, not 2008. - old friend". yes, this was 2018, not 2008. yes, - old friend". yes, this was 2018, not 2008. yes, i. old friend". yes, this was i 2018, not 2008. yes, ithink old friend". yes, this was - 2018, not 2008. yes, i think he is one of the most astute diplomats. he has been a us ambassadorfor ten years diplomats. he has been a us ambassador for ten years now, foreign minister of russia for 20 years. foreign minister of russia for 20 ears. . . foreign minister of russia for 20 years— foreign minister of russia for 20 ears. ., . ., 20 years. the arch defender of what russia — 20 years. the arch defender of what russia did _ 20 years. the arch defender of what russia did in _ 20 years. the arch defender of what russia did in ukraine - 20 years. the arch defender of what russia did in ukraine in i what russia did in ukraine in 2014, still yourfriend in 2018, and now he use it with me saying you know europe has to stop living in la la land. you've been in la la land. yes, i es, i you've been in la la land. yes, i yes. i think — you've been in la la land. yes, i yes. i think i _ you've been in la la land. yes, i yes, i think i have _ you've been in la la land. yes, i yes, i think i have in _ you've been in la la land. yes, i yes, i thinki have in many- i yes, i think i have in many ways, andi i yes, i think i have in many ways, and i think we have to admit that we all were, and now it is question of how we change

tax. it is a question of learning from the past. i must admit that perhaps in finnish terms i've been one of the most hawkish when it comes to russia, one of the strongest nato advocates, but at the same time, they were moments when i personally and many others were actually dovish with russia, and that was the wrong tack to take. it and that was the wrong tack to take. . . and that was the wrong tack to take. , ., ., ,._ ., take. it is fair to say that for years _ take. it is fair to say that for years you _ take. it is fair to say that for years you argued - take. it is fair to say that . for years you argued finland would be better off in nato. now here we are, finland is inside nato, but how far do you want finland now to be a leader in nato? talk about this 1300 kilometres are finland is that border. i see that you have talked about the very real possibility of having nuclear weapons passed through finnish territory, which right now is not something that finland has ever countenanced. are you saying finland should countenance that? no, i am sa in:

countenance that? no, i am saying nato_ countenance that? no, i am saying nato has _ countenance that? no, i am saying nato has three - countenance that? no, i am| saying nato has three pillars of deterrence, one is its military, second one is its missiles, and the third one is the nuclear umbrella, which is provided by the united states and to a certain extent by the united kingdom, and i think it is a very important part of our defence. now bringing nuclear weapons to finland, no one has asked for them, no one is giving them to us, but there are many different ways in which you can be involved in nuclear deterrence. what kind of a member will we be, you asked? i say we are in the geographic margins of europe, therefore we need to be in the institutional core. 0ur nato membership has no limits. we will play our part of a betis for sure. will play our part of a betis for sure-— for sure. you say the key moment _ for sure. you say the key moment that _ for sure. you say the key moment that changed i for sure. you say the key l moment that changed your for sure. you say the key - moment that changed your mind and many finns mind about nato, not so much you most finns mind was the february 2022 invasion of ukraine by vladimir putin, the all out invasion. to what

extent do you think that even today the west's response, its assistance to ukraine, has fallen far short of what was required? i fallen far short of what was required?— fallen far short of what was reuuired? ., .,. ., , required? i am actually quite surprised _ required? i am actually quite surprised at _ required? i am actually quite surprised at how _ required? i am actually quite surprised at how firm, - required? i am actually quite surprised at how firm, how. surprised at how firm, how effective and how quickly support has been. i have been dealing with eu affairs for the better part of 30 years, i have never seen the european union more united, and actually faster. whether the support will last forever, i don't know. i'mjust will last forever, i don't know. i'm just back from ukraine. my message is clear. we need to support ukraine for as long as it takes. you have to remember that things such as the peace facility has been turned into an instrument of financing the war ukraine. the material help from a country like finland, 23 packages, 3 billion euros, a huge amount, if you compare it to gdp per capita. so i'm quite convinced and hopeful we continue to support. and hopeful we continue to su ort. �* and hopeful we continue to su--ort. �* . and hopeful we continue to su--ort.�* ., , , , support. i'm frankly surprised ou sa support. i'm frankly surprised you say that- _ support. i'm frankly surprised you say that. what _ support. i'm frankly surprised you say that. what we - support. i'm frankly surprised you say that. what we see, . support. i'm frankly surprisedj you say that. what we see, in

terms of the momentum on the front line in the east of ukraine, a new front line, it seems, the russians are opening up seems, the russians are opening up in the north, very close to the city of kharkiv, what we see right now is that momentum appears to sit with the russians. so lenski and the ukrainians are desperate for more long—range missiles, more air defences, more of the weaponry that they say they could effectively neutralise the russian threat, if only they had been given them in timely fashion. i they had been given them in timely fashion.— they had been given them in timely fashion. i agree, that's why finland — timely fashion. i agree, that's why finland has _ timely fashion. i agree, that's why finland has been - timely fashion. i agree, that's why finland has been very - timely fashion. i agree, that's i why finland has been very front heavy on this. we just came out with a package when i visited zelenskyy in early april with a security agreement, and actually with air defences and heavy ammunition, and everyone needs to do this, we need to continue to do it. but needs to do this, we need to continue to do it.— needs to do this, we need to continue to do it. but you must listen to the americans - continue to do it. but you must listen to the americans for - listen to the americans for example when they say to the ukrainians, you must not hit russia's oil infrastructure, it

is an escalator react which is not in your, and indeed the wider world's, interest. not in your, and indeed the widerworld's, interest. do you think that is a fundamental mistake that message? mr; think that is a fundamental mistake that message? my main worry right _ mistake that message? my main worry right now— mistake that message? my main worry right now is _ mistake that message? my main worry right now is not _ mistake that message? my main worry right now is not the - worry right now is not the price of oil. my main worry is that ukraine must win this war, and in that sense, i think ukraine has fairly free hand is what it can do. remember, it is facing a huge aggressor, which is violating all rules of war and all international law, and it must win, no matter what. you have changed your tune a little bit because in 2023 at davos, you said, he service with great passion, i wish western leaders would say whatever it takes when it comes to assisting ukraine. they should provide all equipment possible. well, it has more than a year later and they are still not doing it and yet you are trying to tell me, oh, yes, i'm very satisfied. aha, are trying to tell me, oh, yes, i'm very satisfied.— i'm very satisfied. a balance has to be — i'm very satisfied. a balance has to be found. _ i'm very satisfied. a balance has to be found. i _

i'm very satisfied. a balance has to be found. i have - i'm very satisfied. a balance has to be found. i have to i i'm very satisfied. a balance l has to be found. i have to also say there is a slight difference of what a professor at the university institute in florence versus the president of finland can save you florence versus the president of finland can save— of finland can save you mean ou are of finland can save you mean you are giving _ of finland can save you mean you are giving me _ of finland can save you mean you are giving me a - of finland can save you mean you are giving me a message j you are giving me a message which is much more polity, much more tactful can you not really telling me the truth.— telling me the truth. there's a difference _ telling me the truth. there's a difference in _ telling me the truth. there's a difference in office _ telling me the truth. there's a difference in office what - telling me the truth. there's a difference in office what you i difference in office what you can say what you cannot say. but the bottom line is that we need to continue their help. i think a lot of helpers going through but of course more can be done and should be done. {line be done and should be done. one more interesting thought that actually comes to me because i'm in finland, which has a long and pretty dark history with russia in the 20th century, you fought a bitter war with russia. finland fought very bravely, but at the end of that war, you in pursuit of peace ceded territory, quite significant territory, about 10% of your landmass was ceded to russia. your message in this ukrainian conflict seems to be that ukraine should not contemplate ceding any

territory. you are one of the maximal lists in europe who says that every inch, including crimea, has to be returned to ukraine. isn't there a lesson from finland that sometimes you have to make difficult compromises for peace? the lesson is _ compromises for peace? the lesson is that _ compromises for peace? the lesson is that we _ compromises for peace? iie: lesson is that we cannot compromises for peace? "ii2 lesson is that we cannot give advice to the ukrainians what they should do, and i should tell you that the 10% you are talking about is karelia, including the baulk and caughey south, where my grandparents were born and where my father was born. the feeling that we have for that area is still very strong, and that is why i think it would be over the top of me to tell so lenski what he needs to do. i do think, however, that there are four roads to police that he needs to guarantee, one is the question of territory. the second one is security guarantees, the third one is justice, in other words war criminals, and the fourth one is the reconstruction of ukraine. we are not there yet but we should not be giving any

advice to the lenski what he should or should not do with this territory. got should or should not do with this territory.— this territory. got one last thought. _ this territory. got one last thought, finland - this territory. got one last l thought, finland prospered after world war ii as a neutral nation, a nonaligned nation, very specifically the finnish people did not want for a long time tojoin nato. the ukrainians are very understandable reasons, many of them absolutely want to join nato as soon as possible, but could it be that the only practical, pragmatic outcome, at least in the foreseeable future, will be ukraine not in nato? , ., ., , , ., nato? the short answer is no, the lona nato? the short answer is no, the long answer _ nato? the short answer is no, the long answer is _ nato? the short answer is no, the long answer is absolutelyl the long answer is absolutely no. i think what needs to happen is that ukraine needs to number onejoin the happen is that ukraine needs to number one join the european union, numbertojoin nato. union, number to join nato. there union, numbertojoin nato. there is no finish pathway. you have to remember for countries like us in countries like ukraine, foreign policy is existential. when you are living next to an aggressive neighbour whose whole raison d'etre is basically acquiring

territory, you need to get all the security you can get. ukraine's place is in nato. you now are one — ukraine's place is in nato. you now are one head _ ukraine's place is in nato. you now are one head of _ ukraine's place is in nato. you now are one head of state among europe, a fellow head of state president macron of france has said europe has to learn a fundamental lesson. it needs to develop strategic autonomy, to invest in its own defence and security capability to the point where it is no longer dependent on the united states. do you agree with them? i dependent on the united states. do you agree with them?- do you agree with them? i think we are quite _ do you agree with them? i think we are quite far _ do you agree with them? i think we are quite far away _ do you agree with them? i think we are quite far away from - we are quite far away from that, strategic autonomy is not necessarily a bad thing but it's not realistic, remember, finish defence is based very much on american material, we just bought 64 f 35 fighter jet. we have gabriel and we have gl rs which are of american background. what europe needs to understand we need to be more self—reliant

and hyper our defence industry, we need to stand in a bit stronger on our own for defence ourselves from america, i do not think so.— ourselves from america, i do not think so. what do you make of countries _ not think so. what do you make of countries like _ not think so. what do you make of countries like germany, - of countries like germany, italy spain falling very far the 2% of gdp to be spent on defence, which is the nato threshold in which they fail to meet and it seems respect? i think we are seeing a turn of the tide, and germany will get it up to 2% as well, as we go towards the washington — nato summit injuly, the latest is 21 out of 32 nato countries will meet 2%, more important the 2% based on article three of nato is what kind of material you actually have, it is again coming back to where we started from, this is waking up we started from, this is waking up from lala land and taking defence a little bit more seriously which i think is a good and welcome thing. figs

seriously which i think is a good and welcome thing. as part of our good and welcome thing. as part of your thinking _ good and welcome thing. as part of your thinking on _ good and welcome thing. as part of your thinking on taking - of your thinking on taking defence seriously there will be a new frontier of competition, involving superpower rivalries involving superpower rivalries in the far north and arctic which is deeply invested with and we see russia and china in particular showing a very great deal of strategic interest right now?— deal of strategic interest right now? one of the few international— right now? one of the few international institutions l international institutions which i still give a little bit of hope to is the arctic council. of hope to is the arctic council-— of hope to is the arctic council. �* , ., council. are you serious? i soke council. are you serious? i spoke to — council. are you serious? i spoke to the _ council. are you serious? i spoke to the defence - council. are you serious? i i spoke to the defence minister of canada who acknowledged right now the arctic council, he was paraphrasing is dead in the water?— the water? exactly that is why i think the water? exactly that is why i think we _ the water? exactly that is why i think we should _ the water? exactly that is why i think we should try - the water? exactly that is why i think we should try to - the water? exactly that is why i think we should try to keep l i think we should try to keep it alive and resuscitated because it is one of the few places where the americans, canadians and russians including us, here in the arctic are still involved, whether it is realistic in the long run i don't know but it is an inoffensive place, the arctic is about so many things, the environment, the economy

and security, is it a new frontier? i don't think so but it is part and parcel of the larger geopolitical game. you have a role — larger geopolitical game. you have a role as _ larger geopolitical game. you have a role as president in your country, notjust when it comes to foreign policy and security policy, you are supposed to be some kind of values leaderfor supposed to be some kind of values leader for finland. supposed to be some kind of values leaderfor finland. i just wonder — how you fulfil that role when it comes to some deeply controversial things that the finnish government is currently doing? have enclosed the border effectively with russia as a result of the fallout from february 2022 and the invasion of ukraine, we now see that finland is being accused by the united nations and a host of different ngos of fundamentally violating international law by saying to incomers who are attempting to cross into finland along the border, if you try to get in, we will chuck you straight out, we will chuck you straight out, we won't give you any right to file an asylum claim, we won't

recognise your international rights we will simply throw you out? ., , ., , rights we will simply throw you out? ., , ., ., ., out? two points on that we have not closed _ out? two points on that we have not closed the _ out? two points on that we have not closed the border _ out? two points on that we have not closed the border because i not closed the border because of the war, we have closed the border because russia is instrumentalised in, cynically human beings in other words asylum seekers. ibut human beings in other words asylum seekers.— human beings in other words asylum seekers. but they are still human _ asylum seekers. but they are still human beings _ asylum seekers. but they are still human beings with - asylum seekers. but they are l still human beings with rights, bringing them from two places outside saint petersburg and lying them from syria from iraq and yemen. but they have rights? and yemen. but they have riuhts? , . . rights? they have rights absolutely. _ rights? they have rights absolutely. you - rights? they have rights absolutely. you are - rights? they have rights absolutely. you are not| absolutely. you are not recognising _ absolutely. you are not recognising them? - absolutely. you are not recognising them? yes| absolutely. you are not i recognising them? yes we absolutely. you are not - recognising them? yes we are, what we are — recognising them? yes we are, what we are doing _ recognising them? yes we are, what we are doing right - recognising them? yes we are, what we are doing right now i recognising them? yes we are, what we are doing right now is| what we are doing right now is an emergency law being discussed by the way at the european court of human rights, it has been opened up for something called a intake, which basically means you have to look at the asylum seekers also from another perspective. if someone is using them as a weapon you have to find ways in which they are secured, they are guaranteed and russia stops it, and of course russia has

stopped its action, it has not been pushing over asylum seekers for a few months. to be clear, seekers for a few months. to be clear. they _ seekers for a few months. to be clear, they start _ seekers for a few months. to be clear, they start to _ seekers for a few months. to be clear, they start to do _ seekers for a few months. to be clear, they start to do the i clear, they start to do the things you claim they are doing again you will simply push these people back over the border? ~ ., ., border? we have four conditions, _ border? we have four conditions, there i border? we have four conditions, there is i conditions, there is prerogative of the border guards to deal with the issue, that law is right now with the government, and in parliament and we will see what comes out of it. �* . . and we will see what comes out of it. �* ., , ., and we will see what comes out ofit. �* ., ,., ., , of it. again, terms of values which you — of it. again, terms of values which you say _ of it. again, terms of values which you say are _ of it. again, terms of values which you say are so - of it. again, terms of values i which you say are so important to your position, how do you justify finland's long—running treatment of your own indigenous �*s army minority people? united nations and human rights groups of different descriptions talk about discrimination and racism this against the sammi people, notjust for this against the sammi people, not just for years but this against the sammi people, notjust for years but decades and decades? fit, not just for years but decades and decades?— and decades? a very political issue in finland _ and decades? a very political issue in finland and - and decades? a very political issue in finland and there i and decades? a very political| issue in finland and there are some laws right now being dealt with by the government and in

the parliament and i am actually personally flying up to northern finland to lapland to northern finland to lapland to understand better what the actual issues are.— actual issues are. understand better what — actual issues are. understand better what the _ actual issues are. understand better what the issues i actual issues are. understand better what the issues are? l better what the issues are? these issues have been around for decades. people have been telling you what the issues after decades, you were prime ministerfor after decades, you were prime minister for decades? after decades, you were prime ministerfor decades? we after decades, you were prime minister for decades? we have been trying _ minister for decades? we have been trying to _ minister for decades? we have been trying to push _ minister for decades? we have been trying to push those i minister for decades? we have been trying to push those laws| been trying to push those laws through but they are quite complicated. let through but they are quite complicated.— through but they are quite complicated. let me ask you about the — complicated. let me ask you about the environment i complicated. let me ask you about the environment in i complicated. let me ask you| about the environment in this country in which you have to work, you are the head of state you work with the prime list and government elected by the people right now it is a right—wing government which has a key coalition member, the vince party which in many corners of europe would be described as extreme or ultra right wing. there are members of the coalition government with the finnish media having dug through years of social

media out would have found evidence of racist sometimes seemingly violent commentary on social media from these members of government. as president you want to see those people removed from government? it’s removed from government? it's actually not _ removed from government? it�*s actually not my business. i don't have the instruments to move or remove or take people out of the government. so move or remove or take people out of the government.- out of the government. so the leader is a _ out of the government. so the leader is a meaningless i out of the government. so the leader is a meaningless term. | leader is a meaningless term. not at all when you are value leader you do not declare and you do it by action, an example i have been in office two months, allow summer there was a serious discussion about the issues you just mentioned, the value leader at the time the president of finland said enough is enough, racism is a various serious problem i would argue many countries in the western world in liberal democracies. every country has to go through this type of difficult issues, and then part

of it with the sammi, hopefully we can settle things, where these types of issues will emerge again i will intervene. the leader of the socialist and democrats a spanish politician in the european parliament addressed directly your prime minister, your alliance with the far right is a real threat to democracy and to the european project. mr 0rr poe were prime minister please put an end to your alliance with those who want to destroy europe. can you tell me with you agree to those sentiments? no, i don't, two observations on that as former member of the european parliament when the prime ministerfrom european parliament when the prime minister from another party in the chambers, there is usually a heart attack, that was an example there. usually in today's world we simplify things too much, the finns party is right now in government and has been democratically elected, it is working based on a mandate from

the people within the framework of the european constitution, in my experience and i was in government with finns party in 2015, when you are given power and responsibility is taken whether they like the which the way which it is done or not is a completely different thing. for me this is not about ideology but respecting the rule of law and democracy and the finish government is doing so. . , the finish government is doing so. ., , , ., so. ultimately it is about whether— so. ultimately it is about whether finland - so. ultimately it is about whether finland is i so. ultimately it is about whether finland is a i so. ultimately it is about i whether finland is a country of basic, shared and unifying values, i would suggest to you that right now, to date on looks at finland, looks like it is going through the same process of toxic polarisation that we see in many other democracies, perhaps most visibly in the united states? i think that's a simplification to be very frank with you. if you look at all kinds of measurements, whether it is freedom of press, whether it is rule of law or different type of freedoms, the land is always

top three in the world, i would not come and point the finger at the country which is one of the vibrant democracies in the world. . the vibrant democracies in the world. , ., . ., world. president macro three, thank you _ world. president macro three, thank you very _ world. president macro three, thank you very much - world. president macro three, thank you very much for i world. president macro three, | thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. —— alexander stubb. me on hardtalk. -- alexander stubb. ., ,, , ., , . hello, there. looking at thursday's weather, we've got some, i think, wet weather on the way to parts of england and wales with some thundery rain at times. on wednesday, here's the day of sunny spells and passing showers. some of those showers, mind you, were very heavy, for example, here in hebden bridge. but looking at the satellite picture, you can see a stripe of cloud just here, that's a weather front that stretches all the way into europe. there's our fronts. but bumping into that front, we've got this trough here, this line of

very intense showers. you might get the sense that these areas of rain are merging together. well, i think that's exactly what's going on. and they will tend to run towards england over the coming hours. so weather—wise, over the next few hours, not so much of an issue. we'll have some low cloud effects, some of our north sea coast, a few mist and fog patches here and occasional spots of rain or drizzle. drier weather elsewhere with temperatures around 10 or 11 degrees quite widely. the problems with the forecast come tomorrow. i think there is a risk of seeing more widespread rain initially across eastern areas of england through thursday morning before moving across the midlands and on into parts of wales and the west country as we head into the afternoon. so the details are going to be quite difficult to come by, but expect the chance of seeing some heavy thundery rain at times across parts of england and wales. further northwards for northern ireland, sunshine through the morning and a dry morning. the afternoon, yeah, you could see a storm or two breaking out. most of scotland, in contrast to all of that, will be dry, although there will be

some mist and low cloud across eastern areas and spots of drizzle through the morning, the afternoon, the best of the sunshine into the northwest, and that's where we'll see temperatures at their highest, probably reaching around 23 degrees or so. heading into friday, the weather pattern is still rather unsettled, but hopefully a bit more straightforward. it should be a day of sunshine and showers through the afternoon for england and wales. some of those turning heavy and thundery. the drier weather will be further north again for scotland and for northern ireland, where most places will keep spells of sunshine and temperatures well into the low 20s. that's going to feel pleasant with light winds. for the weekend weather picture, we're still at low pressure close to the south of the uk, a ridge of high pressure trying to build in from the northwest. and so, it's again scotland and northern ireland that will have the driest weather through the weekend. england and wales, meanwhile, will have the chance of seeing a few more showers to come. bye for now.

live from london, this is bbc news. slovakia's prime minister is no longer in a life—threatening condition after he was shot

in an assassination attempt. that is what an aide tells the bbc. vladimir putin is given a red carpet welcome in china at the start of his first overseas visit since beginning his latest term as russian president. junior doctors in england have agreed to meet the government for talks in a pay dispute, which has run for more than a year. and we have an exclusive interview with sir eltonjohn and his husband ahead of their upcoming photography exhibition in london. hello. i'm sally bundock. warm welcome the programme. we begin in slovakia where the slovakian prime minister, robert fico, remains in hospital after hours

of surgery to save his life